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C I ' L A PAT R O L
ORAL HISTORY INTERVIEW

WNHC 33 91-1
MR. W. LOGAN GRIER

N AT I O N A L H I S TO R I C A L C O M M I T T E E
Headquarters Civil Air Patrol
Maxwell Air Force Base, Alabama

C I V I L A I R PAT R O L
ORAL HISTORY PROGRAM

Interview
of
M r. W. L o g a n G r i e f

by
C o l o n e l L e s t e r E . H o p p e r, C A P

Date: 14 September 19912
Location: Milford, Delaware

ACCESS AGREEMENT

KNOW ALL MEN BY THESE PRESENTS:
Thnt r. L- 0 ~ A" ~' ~ r - / , ~ , , ~ - - . have this day participated in an oral-magnetic-taped interview with covering
--"
'
'
"
"
.
.
.
.
.
r
my best recollections of events and expcnences which may be of historical stgmilcanos to the Ci,nl Air Pat o. ]
I understand tha~ tbe 'tape(s) and the transcribed manuscript resulting therefrom will be acccssloned into the Civil Air Palrol's
Historical Holdings. In the best inlerest of the Civil Air Patrol, I do hereby voluntarily give, transfer, convey, and assign all right, title,
and interest in the memoirs and remembrances contained in the aforementioned magnetic tapes and nmmncript to the Civil Ak Patrol,
to have and to hold the same forever, hereby relinquishing for myself, my executors, administrators, heirs, and assigns all ownership,
right, title,, and interest thcrcln to the donee expressly on the condition of strict observance of the following restrictions:

: ~

" ~ "

~

DONOR

D AT E D / ~ e . - . ~ - ~ - / o ; v, ~ . , / ~ 0 ~ - / ' ~ _ / ~ . . 9 ( '
ACCEPTED ON BE J~ALF OF THE CIVIL AIR PATROL BY

C I V I L A I R PAT R O L O R A L H I S T O R Y I N T E R V I E W S

Civ~l Air Patrol Oral History interviews were initiated in early
1 9 8 2

b y

L t .

C o l .

L e s t e r

E .

H o p p e r,

C A P,

o f

t h e

C i v i l

A i r

Patrol's National Historical Committee. The overall purpose of
these interviews is to record for posterity the activities of'
selected members of the Civil Air Patrol.

The prin<'iple goal of these histories is to increase the base of
knowledge relating to the early accomplishments of Civil AiY
Patrol me[~ers who in their own unique way contributed to the
defense ~,f our great country. Certainly not of a secondary
nature i~ the preservation of the contributions of individuals as
Civil Air Patrol continues its growth.

FOREWORD
The following is a transcription of an oral history interview
recorded on magnetic tape. Since only minor ememdations have

been

made, the reader should consistently bear in mind that he Js
reading a transcript of spoken rather than the written word:
A d d i t i o n a l l y, n o a t t e m p t t o c o n fi r m t h e a c c u r a c y o f t h e i n f o r m a tion contained herein has been made. As a result, the
Peflects the interviewee's personal recollections of a

transcript
situation

as he remembered it at the time of the interview.

Editorial notes and additions made by Civil Air Patrol historians
are enclosed Jn brackets. If feasible, first name, rank or titles
are also provided. Any additions, deletions and changes subsequently made to the transcript by the interviewee ar~e not indicated. Researchers may wish to listen to the actual interview
tape prio1 to citing the transcript.

SUMMARY OF CONTENTS

Grief starts this oral history interview with his
early experience with aviation and progresses to his
joining

C , A , P, i n

order

to

fly

at

the

Civil Air

Patrol

Coastal Patrol Base 2 in Rehoboth, Delaware. His description of his activities while at

Rehobo~h p~ovide8

~nteresting information on the operations az that location. He covers his crash at sea and ~ub~equent rescue,
His evaluation of base effectiveness, management and
overall operations provides valuable matezial in the~e
areas.

GUIDE TO CONTENTS
Page

Subject
Early Flying Experience
Joining CAP
Becoming a Pilot
Civilian Background
R e a s o n f o r J o i n i n g C . A . P.
"Back Seat" Flying
To m S a n s c h a r g r i n
Daily Routine
Patrol Routine
Convoy Escort ing
Spotting Submarines
Finding a Body
First Submarine Sighting
Second Submarine Sighting
Escorting LaYge Convoy out of Delaware Bay

ii

Crash at Sea

12

Walter Fullerton
Rescue by U. S, Navy
L o c a t e d o n ' Wa t e r b y S a n s o h a r g r i n
Fairchild on Floats
Aircraft Flotation Device
Survival Equipment
Medical Treatment at Cape May Air Station
Induction into Duck Club
Radio Equipraent
Unusual Aircraft at Base
Living Arrangements

Base Effectiveness
Base Management
22

Overall Evaluation

C I V I L A I R PAT R O L O R A L H I S T O R Y I N T E R V I E W
Number:
Ta p e d I n t e r v i e w w i t h :
Date of Interview:
Location:
Conducted by:

WNHC33.91-1
W. Logan Grief
14 September 1991
Milford. DE
Col. Lester E. Hopper. CAP

H: Logan, if I may. let's start off with a little bit of
your personal background, and how you got interested in
fl y i n g a n d h o w y o u g o t i n t e r e s t e d i n C . A . P. , y o u k n o w ,
just a little bit about Logan.

G:

Well,

flying.

it's

I'll

kind

try

to

of

funny

make

it

how

short.

I
I

got
was

interested
up

in

a

in

plane

one time when I was going to college, one of those dollar
hops, you know. in an open cockpit, another fellow and I
:n the front, and we asked him to do something other than
flying, and he did wing-overs, and we didn't have any
safety belts. We were hanging on by our hands, and
scared the hell out of me, and I swore I'd never get in a
plane again, and finally I was asked to join a club too,
and I sa~d, No, I'm going to see if I can do it. That's
the

only

reason

I

learned

to

fly,

to

try

to

get

over

b e i n g s c a r e d o f i t . A s f a r a s j o i n i n g t h e C . A . P. , i n
World War If, I was not married, and I guess I figured
you

couldn't

make

out

without

me.

so

I

tried

to

join

s o m e t h i n g , p r e f e r a b l y i n t h e A ~ r F o r c e , b u t I w a s 4 F, a n d
I had a chance to go to Rehoboth.
H : W e r e y o u i n C . A . P. p r i o r t o t h e t i m e t h a t y o u w e n t
to Rehoboth, or you went ~n just to go?

G: In fact in order" to go. I had to buy an airplane.

I

borrowed money at the bank to buy an airplane. I bought
an airplane so I could get in.

H:

O k a y. D o y o u r e c a l l w h a t t y p e o f a i r p l a n e t h a t w a s ?

Grief

G:

Fairchild 24.

H:

Yo u b o u g h t a b i g o n e t h e n .

G.

Nice airplane.

H:

Yo u s u r e d i d .

Did you fly your Fairchild when you

were a t R e h o b o t h ?
G :

We l l ,

w e

j u s t

whatever..When

I

p u t

t h e m

was

first

i n

a

there

p o o l .
I

was

We

fl e w

only

an

observer for about two months, because I only had about
two hundred hours. Later I got to be a pilot,
H:

O k a y, w a s t h e r e s o m e c r i t e r i a a b o u t h o w m u c h

flying

time y o u h a d b e f o r e y o u w e r e a p i l o t ?
~) There were some pretty good pilots, and they

didn't

let the kids like me take over until we knew more.
H:

How old were you at the time?

G:

Thirty-three.

H:

Thirty-three. A kid!

G:

Ye a h . I w a s a k i d i n fl y i n g .

H: As far as flying was concerned. What
b e f o r e y o u g o t i n t o C . A . P. , f o r a l i v i n g ?
t~:

I was half owner of a lurf~er yard here in town.

H: Oh, I see, you were in the lumber business, 6o
actually you had to put a pretty significant business in

Grief
t h e b a c k g r o u n d t o v o l u n t e e r t o g o fl y w i t h C , A . P,

Yo u r

motivation for that was what?
G: Pride.
H:

Pride and patriotism.
like

G: Maybe more pride, I don't know. I didn't
~omebody telling me I couldn't do something.
H : O k a y. S o y o u p r o v e d t o t h e m a n d y o u t h a t y o u

could

do what you wanted to do.
G:

Proved to me.

H : Ye s . T h a t ' s t h e m o s t i m p o r t a n t t h i n g . O k a y. y o u
mentioned that while you were a college student..,where
did you go to school and what did you study?
G:

University of Delaware.

H : U n i v e r s i t y o f D e l a w a r e , a n d y o u s t u d i e d f o r e s t r y,
something related.
~:

No, economics.

H:

Economics, pretty much related to owning a lumber

yard.

Yo u ' v e g o t t o m a k e m o n e y i f y o u ' v e g o t a l u m b e r

yard.

So you were assigned to Rehoboth, about when was

that. Logan?
G:

The first of April in forty-two.

H : O k a y, t h a t w a s w i t h i n t h i r t y d a y s o f t h e b a s e o p e n i n g
up.

Grief

H:

So you were one of the earlier ones to get there.

O k a y, n o w w h e n y o u r e p o r t e d t o R e h o b o t h , w h a t d i d y o u d o ?
Well, for a while I just stood around,

Then I flew

in the back seat some, flew up in the right

hand seat,

a n d fi n a l l y, a f t e r a b o u t t w o m o n t h s , I w a s

flying the

airplanes.
H I Yo u m e n t i o n e d s o m e t h i n g u n u s u a l , t h e r e , y o u fl e w i - n
the back seat. How long did they keep to their practice
of flying three people?
G:

Only a very short time,

H: Because I think they found out they had an

accident

o r s o m e t h i n g , d i d n ' t t h e y, .
G:

I think I only did it twice.

H: After a while it became a prohibition for three to be
in there at the same time. How long were you at
Rehoboth? Did you stay?
G: Until August 31st of forty-three, when they closed
the base.
H: So you stayed for the whole closure and everything
else. I'm running ahead a little bit, but where dld you
go to when you finished up at the base?
G: I went up to get a job with Eastern Aircraft in
Tr e n s o n , N e w J e r s e y. I d i d n ' t l i k e t h e j o b t h a t t h e y
were giving me, I got the flu and I came home to see the
doctor and I didn't go back. Then I went with L. D.

Grier
Caulk Company here in Milford as purchasing agent for the
r e s t o f t h e w a r.
H : W a s t h a t t h e e n d o f y o u r C . A . P. c a r e e r , o r d i d y o u
become associated with it later on?
(3:

That was the end of it.

H: When you were out at Rehoboth, did you have any
special friends that you hung around with more than
everybody else?
(~:

Ye s , T h e r e w e r e s e v e r a l t h a t I b e c a m e v e r y c l o s e t o .

H:

Would you mind telling me who they were?

G: Well, one was a...the two fellows I lived with were
To m S a n s c h a g r i n , h e w a s a F r e n c h C a n a d i a n , b u s h p i l o t ,
a n d To m O ' D a y, w h o n o w l i v e s i n A l a b a m a .
H: Did Sanschagrin by any chance go down to Manteo from
here, or did he stay here with you all the time?
G: He stayed here until the end.

He was going to go to

Suffolk, but he stayed.
H: Were there that many Canadians involved in Coastal
Patrol?
¢: He's the only one I knew. I say Canadian, he came
from New Hampshire. He was a Frenchman, he spoke more
French than he did English.
H:

Well, the reason I ask i.~ I'm tracing down a story of
Canadian pilot who was at. Manteo. North Carolina, who

had an accident at sea, and had to land on an air,raft

Grief
c a r r i e r, w h i c h i s a v e r y u n i q u e t a l e . O k a y. h o w m u c h d i d
y o u fl y ? D i d y o u fl y t w i c e a d a y, o r o n c e a d a y ?

Once in a while,

G : U s u a l l y o n c e , t h r e e h o u r s a d a y.
twice, but most of the tlme, once.

H:

G i v e m e a r o u g h i d e a o f y o u r d a y. W h a t h a p p e n e d ?

W e l l , o f c o u r s e w e h a d t w o s h i f t s . Yo u ' d e i t h e r g o
on at about four in the morning, depending on when the
gun rose, or at noon, and you worked the first half day
o r t h e s e c o n d h a l f . Yo u ' d g e t u p a n d y o u ' d g e t a c u p o f
coffee and go out and--in the winter when the air was
rough it could be a little mean, because we had no way
of.,,you weren't allowed to take anything along to urinate in. We'd kneel up on the seat, open the door on a
( : F a c k o a i m f o r t h e c r a c k , w h i c h w a s k i n d o f u n h a n d y.
A n y w a y,

it

wasn't

too

bad.

It

got

pretty

rough

some

times.

H : Yo u t o o k o f f , a n d t h e n w h a t d i d y o u d o , o n c e y o u g o t
airborne?
G:

Well.

usually

we'd

patrol.

We'd

either

go

on

n o r t h e n d , w e ' d g o o u t t o F o g I s l a n d L i g h t B u o y,
Wildwood,

New

Chincoteague,

Jersey.
or

we

arid

would

then
go

head

down

off

down

to

inside

to

on

the

the

Chincoteague and head back up. In other words, we

had

o n e fl i g h t o f t w o g o i n g d o w n t h i s w a y a n d a c Yo s 8 ,

H:

In other words you were patrolling an area.

G : Ye s , o r w e w o u l d g o o u t a n d c o n v o y s h i p s , i f t h e r e
were any there. We'd pick them up down off Chincoteague,
they'd always be going north. There'd be nothing going
south,

Grief
H:

O k a y, s o y o u ' d p i c k t h e m u p a t , w h a t ' s t h a t l o c a t ~ o n ?

O~

ChJncoteague, Virginia.

H : S o y o u f o l l o w e d t h e c o n v o y.

Did you fly right on top

of it, off to the side?
G: We'd fly out away from it, ahead. I don't know if we
were right, but we'd fly to the outside or in front.
H:
G:

At what kind of altitude?
We started at around a hundred feet, and later we

were fl y i n g a t a r o u n d f o u r o r fi v e h u n d r e d f e e t .
H:

Any reason for your flying high.

would your

visibility be better.
G:

Well, somebody got the idea that we should change it.

H:

One of those "That's the way it's going to be,"

G~

Ye s . P r o b a b l y b e t t e r, I d o n ' t k n o w.

H: So you said that was usually about a three hour
flight at any given time. Then you'd come back in. When
you were doing your flying, did you see anything unusual
out there.
G:
Ye s . I s a w t w o s u b m a r i n e s . O f c o u r s e w e s a w a l o t
of marine life, but that's beside the point. One time we
saw a tug that was blown up by a mine, and about a week
later...
Hi

Excuse me. can you tell me about when and where that

Grief

G :

R i g h t

o u t

o f f

o f

D e l a w a r e

B a y,

o ff

r i g h t

t h e

breakwater, and then later found a body. But

another

time we found a mine, and we held the position

on

the

mine until a minesweeper could get to it,

H: Do you have any opinion as to whether or not it was a
German mine or one of ours that had broken loose?

G:

Oh, it had to be German.

H:

It had been laid by one of the subs.

G:

Ye s , t h e y ' d c o m e i n a t n i g h t .

H:

Now you say you spotted two subs?

H:

Again. about when and where?

G: Well, one was about the early summer of forty-two,
and the other one was early forty-three.

H: Let's talk a moment about the one of early forty-two.
Where was it?

G:

It was unusual. He was on the surface about five

miles off of Bethany Beach. Why he was there, I don't
k n o w. We d o v e a n d h e d o v e . A c t u a l l y, h e c o u l d h a v e s a t
on his deck and shot us down with a shotgun, but anyway
he dove. He hit the bottom, stirred the sand up. I saw
him going out, but our radio went out, and we
get a call through.

couldn't

Grief
Now that was before you had bombs on the aircraf%,
G:
H:

Ye s . W e h a d n o t h i n g .
Yo u h a d n o t h i n g . T h e r e w a s n o

question about it

being a German submarine.
G:

Oh, no doubt.

Hi And you could not get any help.

Now how about the

second situation?
Well, I just saw a periscope, it was down about right
and we
o f f O c e a n C i t y, M a r y l a n d . H e w a s h e a d e d s o u t h ,
reported
~eported the position, and later somebody else
it, and they pretty much plotted where he was.

I don't

think they got him.
H : Yo u s a w a p e r i s c o p e . T h a t ' s a p r e t t y s m a l l t h i n g i n
t h e w a t e r, b u t i t w a s m a k i n g a w a k e , o r s o m e t h i n g ? C o u l d
you see the outline of the boat down there?
G: No, only the scope.

It looked sort of like the end

of a broomstick.
H:

Yo u h a d t o b e l o o k i n g c l o s e .

G:

I guess so.

H:

Did you say you spotted some survivors or bodies

something?
G:

S o m e o f t h e b o y s d i d . A l l I f o u n d w a s a b o d y.

H:

W h e r e w a s t h e b o d y, j u s t fl o a t i n g a r o u n d o u t t h e r e ?

Grier
I t w a s o u t o f f D e l a w a r e B a y.

H:

Yo u d i d n ' t h e a r a n y r u m o r s a b o u t w h e r e i t c a m e f r o m .

G:

Oh, yes. fro,, a Navy'tugthat hit a mine and blew up.

H:

Okay,

that

body

came

off

the

tug

that

you

talked
tug,

about. And that was a Navy tug, not a comulercial
Go ahead. If there was anything else unusual.

G: Well. I don't know really. I don't think of anything
u n u s u a l .
heavy

We l l ,

fog,

we

i t

w a s

never

u n u s u a l

missed

a

o n e
day

d a y.
of

We

flying,

h a d
fog

a
or

whatever, I think we were wrong, but we flew them all.
But one time the fog had backed ships up in Delaware Bay
and when they came out, the convoy had to be at least
three to four hours long, and you'd see all the blimps
and

the,

well

not

destroyers,

but

smaller

ships,

our

planes, really had them convoyed.

H:

Yo u j u s t w a t c h e d i t s t e a m o n o u t .

G:

Well, we sort of convoyed them out.

H: Oh, you followed them out, that was coming out of
D e l a w a r e B a y, y o u s a i d .

G:

Ye s , g o i n g n o r t h .

H : G o i n g n o r t h . Yo u m e n t i o n e d e a r l i e r y o u s a w t h a t t u g
s i n k . Yo u d i d n ' t s e e a n y b i g s h i p s s u n k o r a n y t h i n g l i k e
that with any permanence. Sunken ships that you used as
sighting points or anything?

~?i Well, we knew that several were sunk before I got
there, none after I was there, not that I had anything to

Grier
do with it.

H :

We l l ,

I

c e r t a i n l y

t h i n k

t h a t

the operations had

something to do with it.

G~

I think we scared them.

I think we scared them off. Submarines don't like

H :

a i r p l a n e s ,

e v e n

i f

t h e y

d o n ' t

h a v e

bombs.

a n y

put

I n c i d e n t a l l y, t h e s a m e k i n d o f o p e r a t i o n s y o u

on

actually

here, the British did earlier in 1939, and they
called theirs the Scarecrow Patrol.

G~

I didn't know that.

H: Of course the
in

which

you

biggy that I should know ahead of time,

were

involved.

I

think

you

had

a

little

trouble with an airplane out over the ocean one day,
didn't you?

G:

Ye s , o n e q u i t o n m e .

H:

Te l l u s a l i t t l e b i t a b o u t t h a t .

0: Well, w~ were 0onvoying a British ship down off the
Maryland

coast,

and

it

just

quit.

We

were

about

five

hundred feet, which gives us one minute. Of course, I
pushed the starter, and nothing worked, so then I have to
land

it.

But

it

was

a

day

that

we

were

in

a

fog,

so

there was no horizon, a dead calm, not a breath of air,
so we've got no head wind. When we got down close to the
water I realized you couldn't tell where the water was,
you broke down into it, and I had to keep holding it off
and holding it off and holding it off,

Fortunately: i

dragged the tail wheel, and that slowed us down a little
bit. We must have hit, well, we hit at sixty or whatever

Grief
and of course you know that as soon as you hit you stop.
We didn't get hurt. I had a pretty good black and blue
mark where the belt was, and a Navy plane picked us up
about two hours later.

H:

(3:

It:

Well. who was with you at the time?

Walter Fullerton.

So it was you and Fullerton.

Fullerton was your

o b s e r v e r.

H:

How

long

into

your

flight

did

this

occur

that

the

engine died?

G:

Oh, I'd say an hour and a half, maybe.

H: Did you have time to get radio information back to
the base? Is that how they knew you were going down?
G : Yo u s e e w e a l w a y s h a d t w o p l a n e s . F u l l e r t o n s t a r t e d
to call in and I told him to forget the radio and get his
s u r v i v a l g e a r a n d g e t r e a d y, a n d t h e o t h e r p l a n e c a l l e d
Jt in, except they called it in twelve miles wrong. In
the fog it took a while to find us.

H:

W~o was in the other aircraft, do you recall?

G : A n e w p i l o t n a m e d H a r m o n f r o m N e w Yo r k ) a n d I f o y. g e t
who the observer was, but he'd had a bad night and he was
sleeping and he d~dn't know where they were, Anyway)
t.hey found us, the French Canadian found us,
H:

French Canadian flying...

Grief
G:

Sanschagr~n.

H:

Oh, Sanschagrin found you.

G:

He went up, found the

ship we were convoying,

followed the wake down.
H:

In other words, he took off from Rehoboth to come out

and l o o k f o r y o u .

H:

O k a y, w h a t w a s h e fl y i n g ?

G:

He was in a Fairchild sea plane.

H~

Fairchild on floats.

way,

What were you flying,

when you crashed?

G:

Fairchild.

H : F a i r c h i l d ? Yo u d o n ' t r e m e m b e r w h a t

the airplane

number was or anything.
G~

W @ I I , i t w a s a R a n g e r m o t o r.

H:

One of the Fairchild in-lines, then.

H : O k a y. S o y o u c r a s h e d t h e a i r p l a n e .

Did you have any

difficulty getting out?
@i Well, I did, because it shook me up and I forgot I
had the seat belt on, and I thought I was cramped in, and

Grier
then I realized to get the belt loose, and I got out.
H:

Were you under water at the time, or what?

G ~ Ye s , I w a s u n d e r w a t e r, b u t n o t t h a t f a r,

I though:

I was way down. but..
H:

ZTie airplane flipped over then when it went in?

G:

It went up like that.

H:

Oh, it went up like that, and the tail stuck up.

G:

The tail stuck up,

H: ~]at's right. This is the place where Smitty put in
some buoyancy and the tails of your airplanes stuck up.
5:

Ye s , t h a t ' s r i g h t . T h a t ' s t h e o n l y p l a n e t h e y w e r e

able t o s a v e .
H~ What was that he put in the back end of it, to give
it some buoyancy?
G~

Five gallon cans, soldered them airtight and tied

them i n .
Hz

That was an interesting innovation.

G:

It worked very well.

H~

N o w h o w a b o u t y o u r p e r s o n a l s u r v i v a l g e a r, w h a t w e r e

you w e a r i n g a t t h e t i m e ? D i d y o u h a v e a l i f e j a c k e t ?
G~

Ye s . M a e We s t .

Grief
A standard Mae West?
G:

And we each had a small one-man raft.

H: Were you able to get it out of the airplane and
in it?
G:

Ye s . F u l l e r t o n d i d t h a t , f o r t u n a t e l y.

H:

He got both rafts out for you?

G:

Ye s . T h e t w o w e r e i n a p a c k a g e t o g e t h e r .

H : O k a y. B o t h r a f t s w e r e t o g e t h e r, a n d h e g o t o u t o f
the airplane and you got out of the airplane and both of
y o u m a n a g e d t o g e t i n y o u r r a f t s . N o w y o u s a y t h e N a v y,
after Sanschagrin found you, the Navy came out and got you.
That was after about how long?
G:

Oh. maybe two hours.

H:

About two hours.

G:

This plane was over at Cape May Naval

Air Station,

and they came out and picked us up.
H:

O k a y, w h a t w a s i t , a P B Y o r s o m e t h i n g l i k e t h a t ?

G:

N o , i t w a s a G r u m m a n p e r s o n n e l c a r r i e r.

H:

Widgeon. That was a good workhorse.

G:

Ve r y g o o d ,

Hi Well, what happened when you got back to the base,
did people kid you a lot?

Grier

N o . F i r s t o f a l l , w e w e n t i n t o C a p e M a y. A m b u l a n c e
u s , w e a l l g o d o w n t h e r u n w a y, s i r e n w i d e o p e n .

and

got to the hospital. The doctor went out with

Dhe

pilots, and finally told the doctor we'd had a

bad

experience and we needed something. So he broke open a
c a s e a n d t o o k o u t s o m e t w e n t y - fi v e y e a r o l d a p p l e b r a n d y,
we each had two of them and it kind of made it all all
~ight.

H : S o t h e y t o o k y o u b a c k t o C a p e M a y, a n d w h a t d i d y o u
do then?

G:

They took us to Rehoboth.

H: They checked you out at the hospital and made

sure

Z o u w e r e o k a y.

G:

H:

Ye s . W e w e r e a l l r i g h t .

Then they took you back to Rehoboth. When you got

back t o R e h o b o t h , w h a t w a s t h e r e a c t i o n t h e r e ?

G : We w e r e g r e e t e d n i c e l y. M a y b e I s h o u l d t e l l , b u t t h e
doctor

in

Cape

May,

I

told

him

when

I

got

back

to

Rehoboth I was going to tie one on. He said, Don't do
it,

it

won't

work.

But

I

tried

it,

and

it

made

me

sick

as a dog. That's the only effect I had, so I learned,
even though I didn't think I was shook up, I guess I was.

H:
lot

Ye s . W e p l a y g a m e s w i t h o u r s e l v e s . Yo u s t i l l h a d a
of time to serve after that, didn't you?

Gl No, that was July thirty-first.
go.

We had one month to

Grief
H : Yo u h a d o n e m o n t h t o g o .

Did you fly some more after

that?

G:

Well,

much.

our

planes

were

so

shot

that

we

didn't

fly

Cape May did most. I mean Atlantic City did most

of our flying. I think I flew three times after that.

H:

Yo u d i d fl y t h o u g h , s o m e m o r e .

H:

But the problem was aircraft, not Logan?

H: Now, of course there was an organization established
to recognize people like yourself within the Civil Air
Patrol

called

the

Duck

Club.

Did

they

ever

formally

introduce you into the Duck Club?

~.

No but Hugh Sharp gave me a pin.

H:

At the base?

G:

He gave it to me at a reunion.

H:

Oh, he didn't

G:

give it to you..

I just got one two or three years ago.

I t

d i d n ' t

matter, but..

H:

How about Sanschagrin, did he ever get one?

G: I don't know.
did.

I believe he did.

I'm pretty sure he

Grier
H: Sometimes they were available, but your name was
listed as being one of them, and we'll go into a little
bit of that later on.

I h a d o n e a n y w a y.

G:

H : Yo u m e n t i o n e d a l i t t l e b i t a b o u t r a d i o s . W h a t k i n d
of radios did you all have? Were they pretty good or..?
after

G: Well, starting off, they were not so good, but
a while they did a good job for you.

H: And you were able to pretty much co~nunicate when you
were out at sea and everything else.

G:

After

the

first

three

or

four

months

we

made

pretty well.

H,

What would you say the range of those things was?

G:

Well, they were well over a hundred miles,
airplanes down

H : O k a y, d i d y o u h a v e a n y u n u s u a l t y p e
here?

Ol We had a monoplane that ground-looped every time it
was on the ground, and we had a Sikorsky amphibian, which
was unusual. I think that's all.

H:

Did you get to fly the Sikorsky?

~l I flew with the pilot one time, and he turned it over
t o m e , c r a z i e s t t h i n g I e v e r s a w. Yo u ' d m a k e a l e f t t u r n
and

fly

straight,

and

it

seemed

like

a

minute

and

it

w o u l d t u r n . Yo u ' d d i p y o u r w i n g , a n d i t w o u l d s t a y u p

Grief
and then it would dip. It had the greatest lag I ever
saw in an airplane. I didn't think I wanted to fly it.

H :

It was a good straight and level airplane. Huh?

H: Did you have any friends that were involved in any of
these unusual incidents, that they related to you, like
seeing a submarine, other than the ones you saw, or
seeing any sinkings?

G: Of course, everybody was your friend.

I don't really

t h i n k o f a n y.

H: How about living? How did you live when you were
Rehoboth?

G:

Well,

we

all

found

our

own

living.

I

lived

with

S a n s c h a g r i n a n d O ' D a y. t h e t h r e e o f u s r e n t e d a h o u s e
together, and some of the others did the same thing.

H:

H:

Yo u d i d y o u r o w n c o o k i n g , a n d a l l t h a t g o o d s t u f f ?

How about your pay and things like that

while you

were d o w n t h e r e ?
G :

We

g o t

e i g h t

d o l l a r s

a

d a y

per

diem,

and

you

furnished everything.

H :

O k a y, d i d y o u g e t i t f r e q u e n t l y o r i n f r e q u e n t l y ?

G:

At first, I think for two months you didn't

and t h e n i t c a m e t h r o u g h .

g e t a n y,

Brier

H: Then it got standardized, as the saying

goes, they

started making pay days.

H:

Some kind of general questions about base

effectiveness, how well equipped do you think the base
was?
G : W e l l , i t i m p r o v e d . To b e g i n w e d i d n ' t e v e n h a v e a n y
s a f e t y g e a r a t a l l . F i n a l l y, h a d j u s t a r u b b e r b e l t w i t h
a cartridge in it, and then got the Mae Wests, and Ed
S m i t h d i d a w o n d e r f u l j o b . Yo u k n o w t h e N a v y a n d t h e
Pentagon, I think, requisitioned all of the Fairchild
spare parts. Ed couldn't get them. He had to improvise:
He kept us flying for nearly a year and a half without
getting what he needed. He did a great job.
Hz How about the rest of the base?
e v e n t u a l l y g o t t o b e i n g o k a y.
G:

The radios you said

Ye s . T h e y w o r k e d a l l r i g h t .

H: How well was the base managed?

How well was it

commanded?
G:

Hugh Sharp did a good job.

H:

O k a y. W e r e y o u t h e r e w h e n H o l g e r H o i r i i s w a s t h e r e ?

G~ When I went, he was the commander, but
terminally sick. He was never there after I got

he was
there,

a n d s o o n a f t e r t h a t H u g h t o o k o v e r.
H : O k a y, H u g h t o o k o v e r, a n d h e r a n t h e t h i n g p r e t t y

Grief
well?
I don't know about Hoiriis but Hugh ran it very well.
H:

Everybody pretty well respected him and liked him?

G:

Ve r y m u c h .

H:

O k a y, h o w w e l l d o y o u f e e l t h e b a s e w a s o p e r a t e d ?

G: Oh, I think we did a good job. Of course, we cut up
a little bit maybe, and didn't do everything we should,
but everybody tried. Nobody sabotaged it.
H:

Did they have parties at night?

H~ How about drill and all that foolishness,

that you

all had to put up with?
for about a couple of weeks. It didn't last

H: It didn't last long. In other words, you were there
to fly airplanes, not to play soldier.

H: What kind of a summary statement, what's your own
personal overall evaluation of the worth of Coastal
Patrol, the whole concept?
G:
Hi

Observation of what, now?
How good was Coastal Patrol, did it accomplish

Grief
anything?
G:

I think it did. Well, I believe we accomplished,

b e c a u s e t h e s u b m a r i n e s l e f t . B u t a l s o , e v e r y b o d y, o h I
won't say everybody was diligent all the time. but still.
they all tried, and there was very little trouble, very
l ~ t t l e d i f fi c u l t y.
H:

Now you say the submarines left.

G:

Well, pretty soon, we weren't seeing any more.

H : Yo u w e r e n ' t s e e i n g t h e m a n y m o r e , a n d t h e r e p o r t e d
sinkings were tapering off,

H : O k a y. A n y t h i n g w e h a v e n ' t g o n e o v e r,

Logan, that

you'd like to cover with us?
G:

I don't think of anything, Colonel.

H: Well, it's been a pleasure, and we'll just
off there.

stop it